The summary of the situation of Russian re-invasion to Ukraine covering the last 48 hours, as of 16th February 2023 – 22:00 (Kyiv time).
Sloboda Front
includes the area of between Oskil and Aydar river
Ukrainian General Staff reports repelled attacks in the vicinity of:
- No activity reported.
Siverskyi Donets
overview map of Slovyansk, Kramatorsk, Bakhmut and Lysychansk vicinity
Ukrainian General Staff reports repelled attacks in the vicinity of:
- Nevske, Kreminna, Serebryansky forest, Bilohorivka, Fedorivka
Bakhmut Front
includes the vicinity of Bakhmut
- Wagner mercenaries entered the northern outskirts of Paraskoviivka. (source)
Ukrainian General Staff reports repelled attacks in the vicinity of:
- Bakhmut, Ivanivske, Dyliivka
Bakhmut City
the city of Bakhmut
- Fighting continues on the outskirts.
Avdiivka Front
includes the vicinity of Avdiivka
Ukrainian General Staff reports repelled attacks in the vicinity of:
- Avdiivka, Vodyane, Pervomaiske
Donetsk Front
includes the center and southern part of Donetsk Oblast
- Russian forces bypassed the center of Marinka and advanced north of the town, partly capturing a farm in the vicinity. (source)
- Russian troops entered the eastern part of dachas area south of Vuhledar. (source)
- The enemy shelled Ukrainian positions south of Vuhledar, confirming that Ukrainian Army controls partly controls the dacha area south of Vuhledar. (source)
Ukrainian General Staff reports repelled attacks in the vicinity of:
- Marinka, Pobieda, Novomykhailivka, Vuhledar, Prechystivka, Novosilka
Zaporizhzhia Front
includes the Zaporizhzhia Oblast
Ukrainian General Staff reports repelled attacks in the vicinity of:
- No activity reported.
Kalanchak Front
includes the left bank of Dnipro river south of Kherson and Kakhovka
- No change on the ground during the past 48 hours.
Full map
The full overview map of current situation.
Looking for an interactive map? We got you covered. Visit our original Deployment map.
If you would like to use our maps in your project, video or any other media, please visit Invasion maps page for more information.
This summary and detailed maps are based on the following sources:
General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, official media channels of Ukrainian regional administrations, Ukrainian Ministry of Internal Affairs, Security Service of Ukraine (SBU), geolocated footage and press releases of Russian Armed Forces, self-proclaimed DPR and LPR.
The 24th is near, do we have any hint on what Russia will do? Was their “surprise for the west” just the capture of Bakhmut or the rumors about a large scale offensive about to start are true?
I’ve seen people claim the offensive already started (and is failing) but how can a “large scale offensive” with over half a million soldiers on the ground be just a battle for a 70k people city?
I can’t respond so will comment here: (1) if 100,000 mobilks are on the frontline, you’re confirming that the great majority (200,000) is not); (2) The mobiks are not used as ‘cannon fodder’, Wagner’s convicts are; (3) Believing in unreliable casualty figures coming from a warring party rather than US estimates is a perfect illustration of how support can easily turn into self-delusion
Final comment in the form of a question: how do you explain that reports of confirmed casualties based on open source data exist for the Russian side (BBC Russian) but not the Ukrainian one?
Maybe because the Russian side does not care about the truth.
Why bothering with rigorous research based on open source data when you can simply claim whatever you like, and still be believed by your audience ?
You did not get my point. What I said was that there is reliable information on VERIFIED Russian deaths based on open source data (Meduza with BBC Russian). The same methodology has never been used to my knowledge to determine VERIFIED Ukrainian deaths. There is clearly a reason for that.
This is what I am referring to:
https://meduza.io/en/news/2023/02/13/mediazona-and-bbc-news-russian-publish-further-figures-on-russia-s-losses-in-ukraine
To repeat, it would be extremely useful to use the same methodology to get a picture of VERIFIED Ukrainian deaths as well, as we would then have a common baseline of proven losses.
Yes, I just gave you the reason : people who could it don’t bother with the hard work. Now, if you have plenty of time and if you speak Russian and Ukrainian, feel free to do it.
No, nothing to do with not bothering about hard work. First, you need a team (a single person can’t do it) and secondly you need the will to conduct such research. I suspect nobody in the west wants to do it because of the unpleasant truth that objective casualty count would likely reveal about actual UKR losses. It’s so much more convenient to quote the UKR MOD, isn’t it?
Nobody in OSINT wants to give valuable information to the Russians.
But Russians could do that work, if they really wanted. But they don’t. They prefer to simply invent things, photoshop a few pictures and repeat obvious lies.
BBC Ukrainian could do it, like BBC Russian does. It would be a formidable anti-propaganda tool. But who cares about objective reporting and information?
Patrick, the truth will come out when the war finish. But from what I can see and make a sober judgement, I believe the Ukrainian losses would be more than 10 times those of the Russian. But we shall see.
So if russians lost 120k then Ukrainians lost 1.2million ? wow so believable… Also attacking side needs to attack with more troops than defending and its also easier to defend than it is to attack.
The defenders are being shelled to pieces
You can look here
Thank you very much!
100k is the number given by Putin or one of his cronies. The real number is probably higher. If you base your analysis on Russian official numbers, you’ll be dead wrong. We don’t know how many people were mobilised, how many were sent to the frontline and how many are still training in Russia. It can be 50k, or 500k, I have no reliable information about this.
I base my analysis on US sources mainly. None have claimed that a majority of mobiks were on the frontline, nor that 500 K had been mobilized.
As I said : nobody knows the exact number. But given what we know about Russian losses, if Russian mobilised only 300k (that is a big if) then most of them are either on the frontline, or already KIA, WIA or POW.
And if you have any doubts, do the maths. Russian troops in Ukraine is currently estimated around 300-350k. The lowest reasonable estimate for their losses is currently 200k. We compare this to the numbers of troops sent to Ukraine. 1/2
Number of verified deaths among mobilized soldiers: 1,082. The source is BBC Russian assisted by scores of antiwar volunteers inside Russia.
https://meduza.io/en/news/2023/02/13/mediazona-and-bbc-news-russian-publish-further-figures-on-russia-s-losses-in-ukraine
Since all the deaths cannot be counted in real time, I am willing to multiply this figure by 2,3 or even 5 – but not 10, 20 or 100.
eh. You do not understand the data either because you simply have no experience with it or you just want to do this.
-> officially known to be a part of Special FckUp.
2. That excludes at the start: LDP/R militias, Wagner and other PMCs, ‘volunteers’ and real volunteers (there are some), Kadyrovites and other parts of Rosgwardia (they are not a part of RFAF) completely;
3. This also does not include FSB/GRU personnel and Specnaz units not directly attached as a part
->
–>of parent actual active unit in the field.
4. BARs are not counted either.
5. Not mentioning the units which were not officialy ‘part of the SpecThing’ but actually were (like Moskwa’s crew and generally personnel of Black Sea Fleet)
6. The same problem is with the Airforce, including land personnel (like crews of the launchers).
7. of course death among guests (e.g. Iranians)
–>
–> is a black hole all the same.
That for a start. Ukrainian-made ‘RU-death counter’ is deeply skewed, especially at the beginning – they counted e.g. destroyed BMP as fully crewed (which practically has never been the case and still probably is not) so theirs estimations especially from 1st 3-4 months are off the chart by factor of 2, maybe 3.
–>
–> they also estimate *all* of the personnel, which RF does not ofc.
All and each of these estimates does not count late loses and MIA and does not take correction for POWs and desertions. They also focuses on deaths alone while as much important (in fact: more, because WIA are more numerous than KIA) are numbers of irreparable WIAs and WiAO (wounded in area of operation). Because –>
–> only if you get the both (and presence of hardware) you can estimate effectivnes of the given unit.
So. Having that in mind, make your wild guess because at this stage this is the only thing we can responsible do. Real numbers will probably be never known, especially RU ones.
JC I never said the BBC/Meduza figures reflected all RU losses!!! I only said I wish we’d have an assessment of UKR losses based on the same methodology (i.e going through death registries, obituaries, etc.). And then updating the figures every two weeks like they do for RU losses. Is it really so hard to understand?
we cannot really do this in any reliable form (btw. the ‘serious estimates of BBC/Medusa etc. are worthless in the scientific sense) – how do you estimate unregistered combatants? These were plentiful especially at the beginning and they took – at last taking a glance from the telegram alone of 2/4 of 2022 substantial losses. Does the nonmobilised but militarised in some extend personnel ->
-> from Mariupol counts (police, medical stuff, subordinaries of gov. entities, security personnel etc.)? I mean, before they were fully mobilised as subsidiary to the UAF. What about the resistance (not SoF) forces in the occupied territories? We may try to make obituary count and if you feel industrious you can do this yourself but that does not tell us very much. So?
UK MoD estimates 200k Russian casualties, the US uses a 2 to 1 ratio for wagners. Using 2 to 1 for all Russians the Ukraine MoD death numbers would be about doubled. So half the Ukrainian numbers and you come to US numbers. I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s the way the US calculates. I personally tend to 2/3… The medusa/bbc numbers do not help much.
the Meduza bbc numbers would the most appropriate from a comparative perspective, to mention VERIFIED deaths on BOTH sides. By we only have one side…
A project like that would produce completly diffrent, e.g. better numbers in ukraine out of obvious reasons. The comparability would be zero. If you stay informed concerning USA statements, you know all you need to know concerning ukrainian losses. He said that russian losses are considerable higher than ukrainian now and were about the same in early autumn.
“The comparability would be zero”.
Why is that?
Norwegian intelligence estimated RU casualties as 180k, UK intelligence as 200k and they are still growing day by day. But you still prefer to trust some Ru shit source. Up to you, man 😉
Wagner captured Paraskoviivka https://t.me/RVvoenkor/38566
1 of 2) New brigades being formed, new equipment coming in and Russia is impaling itself militarily and bleeding financially. I get the feeling that things are going quite “well”, if that is a word in this mess at all. I am very much trending towards general Miley´s optimism concerning successfull offensive operations this summer.
2 of 2) If the Ukrainian plan was to make sure that Russia does not get a winter break to reconstitute itself. Well, that plan is working, and Russia playing into that quite nicely. If Russia would have used those 300k plus to train and dig in deep and safe as much gear as possible for spring/summer, that would have scared me a lot, but this… Is Russia really that dumb?
Ukraine’s original plan was to conduct a winter offensive not to defend. Now there is talk about a spring or summer offensive. We will see. As for the 300K conscripts, no more than a few thousand have been killed or wounded so far. I’d say 295,000 are still there and most of them training in Russia and Belarus. The bulk of Russian casualties is from Wagner.
As for the 300K conscripts, no more than a few thousand have been killed or wounded so far.
Hell no. Since September, Russia had at least 40k dead soldiers (and probably twice that number), most of them are mobiks. And I am not even counting WIA.
If Russia only conscripted 300k, most of them are already on the frontline, or already lost.
What’s your source please?
There is Volya’s estimate that is quite high. It is a Russian media, but against Putin and it is maybe the only media which has access to both ukainian and russian documents and soldiers who are actually on the field.
Their estimates for Russian is 39.3k- 39.6k Losses from 12/9/22 to 1/31/23 (133k -137k since the begining)
Their estimate for Ukrainian losses is also quite high. 1/2
There is also a french milbloger, @HeliosRunner, who track losses and regularly give new estimates. His current estimate ranges between 103k and 137k dead Russians. Lst summer, his estimate was around 50k dead Russians IIRC.
This war is quite bloody, especially for the Russian mobiks.
Finally, you must consider that almost all Russian brigades have been reconstituted with mobiks (some of them twice, like the 155th naval infantry brigade) so the huge losses we observe atm are mostly mobiks. Last week, there were 6k Russian eliminated, according to the ukrainan MoD. In other words, since the beginning of February, there are more losses among mobiksthan your number. 3/2
“Last week, there were 6k Russian eliminated, according to the ukrainan MoD”.
Why should we consider this to be accurate and not overblown?
As to the mobiks, they are mostly on the Kupiansk-Svatovo-Kreminna fronts where Russian losses are much lower than on the Donetsk, Vuhledar and Bakhmut ones.
Finally, I have not come across a single US or UK military report claiming that the majority of mobilized soldiers were already fighting.
US National Security Council spokesperson Kirby estimates more than 30,000 casualties among Wagner Group members, including around 9,000 killed, in Ukraine: Jim Sciutto, Reporter via Twitter.
Check this out: only 9,000 Wagner members killed. There is no way mobik losses can be higher.
Of course it’s higher. Mobiks are used as cannon fodder everywhere, not just in Bakhmut, so their losses are higher than Wagner.
Wagner is about 50k (including 30-40k prisonner). Or was, since their losses have been huge. There are at least 100k mobik deployed to the frontline (that’s the number given by Russian officials, so the real number is pobably much higher).
No. they are in all russian units. 155th naval infantry in Vuhledar have been recompleted twice by mobiks, and it shows.
I havbe already explained it to you. The numbers given by Ukrainian MoD are reliable. They may be slightly overestimated, but not so much. See the previous thread.
What’s your source please? I do not recall any official Ukrainian talking about a winter offensive.
And what is your source concerning only 5k mobilized killed? Conscripts is something different, btw.
I meant mobilized, my mistake
“The Ukrainian army has no plans to stop its offensive in the war with Russia during winter”
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/russia-ukraine-war/ukraine-says-no-plans-to-stop-fighting-war-during-winter/2764989
Ok, Ukraine always stated, that it was not interested in a slow down of fighting and there were offensives in the north east until January. I think this does still all fit into my narrative. Concerning Mobil casualties, I would call your unsourced 5k a lot less believable than Ukraine MoD numbers, and those are overblown for sure, I’ll give you that. The MoDs numbers on gear are pretty good,
We can prove that with oryx. US military s numbers are usually considerably lower depending on the wia Kia ratio. I hold that whole casualty, dead discussion generals for senseless, since we have absolutely no real way of verifying. I personally am convinced that Ukraine MoD numbers are good in showing trends. They earned that trust with their gear numbers.
To the mobiks: they showed up on the frontline 2 weeks after mobilization, we have pows from then, and they were used to reconstitute for example the legendary 155th and every other that needed reconstitution, so many. 5 k in 4,5 months makes no sense at all.
Why all that useless propaganda on this for the rest , beautifull website?
That propaganda bullshit that you are spitting arround is actually not very different from the bullshit of ru propaganda.
My thought is that the tru cassualtie Numbers Will be released after the war and even then i trust in western politicians to lie in our face.(same as with COVID-19 , that wasnt so deadly as well)
Please keep the comments on-topic, and use our forums in case of larger topics. Locking this thread.
Hryanikivka is now fully under Russian control, according to deepstatemap.
Ukrainian 10th Mountain brigade has been assigned the name Edelweiss. Hmm, why would anyone name a military unit after Swiss leisure airline? I must be missing something
It’s a mountain flower from a region of their dislocation.
They are named so to honor one of the most successful divisions in killing moskals in World War 2. What are you expecting? When a nation are being invaded by moskals, its people will latch on to any symbol that pisses vatniks off the most.
They’ll happily tear down statues of the likes of zhukov and vatitin just to piss you moskals off, for good reason.
Mountain Brigade, mountain flower. Nothing unusual.
Edelweiss only grow in Alps, but not in Ukaine and Ukraine not even have a own name for that. “Edelweiß” also was the name of a mountain division of NS Wehrmacht. In this case it is unsusual.
It’s a very common symbol, e.g.
In the case of Ukraine, the symbol is crystal clear. Only ignorants will be fooled.
You mean, in the case of Russian military 17 ОСН “Edelweiss” emblem ?
It’s also on the French mountain troops school emblem, the insignia of the Polish Army 21st Podhale Rifles Brigade, the Romanian fifty lei notes, Kazakhstan 500 tenge coins, Kyrgyz postage stamps, etc
The ignorant fools are the ones who believe Russian propaganda.
I don’t believe in Russian propaganda. I just lived in Ukraine for 7 years. There are two or three things I know.
There was a documentary in BBC a few days ago, which was filmed during 1985-1999 for Russia. It’s funny that BBC would report back then that there is a great division in Ukraine between eastern and western part and that in 1991 there was great concern about the rise of fascism (the fathers of Right Sector and Azov). Pretending that it doesn’t exist is convenient only for now. The problem is there.
the problem is everywhere. Making that ‘Ukrainian problem’ is red herring at best and manipulative Russian-serving propaganda on usual. The Ukrainian ‘nationalists’ problem’ has never was particularly bigger than anywhere else in CEE. Actually, taking Orban and Katchynski into equation – it was and is much *less* prominent than Hungary, Croatia (lets not even start with Serbia) or Poland ->
-> An actual nationalist political force in Ukr Parliament has never ever reach recognisable minority (at best time they had had 4 representatives). Unlike France, Italy, locally Germany (and ofc. Poland, Serbia, Hungary, Slovakia etc.).
So: do not make this ‘Ukrainian problem’. It is our general problem with fascist or fascists-alike politics.
Don’t forget Russia, and the Wagner group of course (no one seems to notice the choice of name, Bayreuth festival, does it ring any bells?)
Jeez my grammar went all over the place x.x
I deliberately omitted RF to avoid ‘trading the ball’ structure of an argument (‘you are thief, but you are the one, too’). With RF situation is pretty messy and bery confusing for the Western audience (it is also completely confusing for the Russian themselves).
You took it from my mouth, agree 100%
In how many of those countries that you mentioned have you seen the formation of paramilitary groups with thousands of members? In how many of these countries have you seen those groups being encorporated in the national army to be “under control”? It has happened in the past in other countries and the result was that those groups controlled the army and not the opposite.
In how many of those countries that you mentioned have you seen the formation of paramilitary groups with thousands of members? In how many of these countries have you seen those groups being encorporated in the national army to be “under control”?
There is at least one: Russia.
If you mean Wagner you have to decide. Are they mercenaries or nationalists? The first fights for money the others for ideology. As far as I understand, internationally Wagner is considered a mercenary company. Also they might be fighting with the Russian army but they aren’t incorporated in their ranks.
then maybe research Rusish ‘volunteers/mercenaries’ (they themselves cannot decide) and they are one of many. And a nice boy called Alexei Milchakov just for a snack. The general genocidal language of the RF *official* sources, including blessed by Kremlin, does not needs commentary.
Serbia, Poland, Hungary, I am deliberately excluding RF from the equation because ‘Hitler rabbithole’. In a less visible form: Croatia, GB, Germany and for some extent France – though it is more of an ‘infiltration by’ than ‘incorporation.
Please name the one known hard-core nationalists/white-suprematists (besides usual collections of morons like Melnyk pretty similar to his Polish –>
–> or Hungarian counterparts) which is a part of an actual government, military or police force in decision-making position or is present and visible on political Ukrainian landscape.
The actual problem of ‘nazis’ is less prominent (for now) in Ukraine than in Germany for that simple reason that most of them are either jailed or already dead or soon-to-be.
Can you please name the fascist paramilitary groups that have been incorporated in the Serbian, Hungarian and Polish army? I am not talking about infiltration. They went under the radar, not because the official state placed them there.
in case of Serbia (and especially Republica Srpska in BH) you may use the term ‘the whole’. In Poland Territorials were openly recruiting from fascists entities. In Hungary situation is less clear because Orban is not an idiot, so people from e.g. Legio Hungaria are openly welcomed but not ‘officialy’. Again I am excluding RF from the equation.
>also on the French mountain troops school emblem, the insignia of the Polish Army 21st Podhale Rifles Brigade, the Romanian fifty lei notes, Kazakhstan 500 tenge coins, Kyrgyz postage stamps, etc
Nazis, nazis everywhere /s
When people realize it was those same nationalists that
1) protected the people from the Berkut during the revolution
2) ran to the front first during the Civil war/ 1st russian invasion
3) literally held the country together during this invasion
You’ll see the war with better vision. The heros and best fighters in Ukraine of those “scary” people that love ukraine most deeply.
The people that tell you to be scarred of them are the funny little people with funny little hats that perpetuate the most corruption in Ukraine. Fortunately they are are also being judicially dealt with during this war and the problem will be corrected. A free Ukraine will also have to win its peace domestically after the war is done.
Perfect summary, agree 100%
I;d rather say (in a quite cynic fashion) that this messed-up bunch of white-supremacists, neo-fantasy-imperialists, regular fascists and just criminals loving ‘cool tatoos’ kept their promise and did the only thing which they were so loud about and gave their breath a little value. Namely: they died when it was necessary.
Don’t be overly romantic. There were prety nasty characters involved.
Europeans are tired? Of what? While UA is bombed every single day Europeans are sitting comfortably at their coaches and drinking coffee. Stop spreading ruSSian propaganda.
It’s nearly a year and the Ruzzian advance is moving like a slideshow. Yawn, second best military in the world? That image is forever shattered, Ruzzia is a clownshow, led by despots and yes-men. I have no idea why we were ever afraid of this pathetic nationstate. Seeing how most, if not all of the former Warsaw Pact applied to join NATO at the first opportunity to do so, Russian “power” is weak.
How shall we hit the Russians? With the army, which was lately defeated by Afghan goatherds???
Just send 1000 Bradleys in Ukraine (out of the thousands that are in US warehouses), and Ukrainians will hit the Russians.
Bradley against Russian artillery? And are there enough ukainian drivers who can move the 1.000 Bradley under battle conditions? So far I know, Russians have more then 12.000 tanks. I think it will not be so easy as it may look…
Russian Artillery is good against fixed targets. No so much against moving armored vehicules. And yes, there are enough ukrainian drivers for 1 000 bradleys, and even more. They have been driving everything they have under battle conditions for 1 year.
Russians do not have 12 000 tanks. They have about 1500 – 2500 tanks left. Others are destroyed, or rotten in soviet stockpiles.
Aaaah, equal to the high precision rockets, which the also not have already since March 2022???
Nonsense!
Nonesense is what you write. Try to get better information, and come back later so you can write something useful.
I don’t know, what they are tell you in your country. But here in Germany “experts” really since March 2022 tell, that the Russians don’t have high precision rockets anymore!
Think what you want and be happy… but don’t weep, when you’re realise that you were wrong!
I follow German media at times but must have missed the expert you seem to quote. Would you please post your source? German media do report closely on RU attacks on UA civilian infrastructure, implying RU have such weapons available.
Media have been reporting that Russia’s missile stock is depleting fast and that they even use chips from washing machines. When you are a reporter you need to find news. You find news from sources that most of the times you have to pay. The sources enjoy the money so they can claim whatever they want because this is how they will get more money. If it turns up inaccurate after 6 months who cares?
Sounds like ChatGPT sry I can’t see your point. Commenter “ZORN” made claims about reports which I can’t think about. No food for, though 🙂
Russian don’t have many “high precision rockets” left, that’s sure.
Notice how the last “missile waves” do less and less results, because they don’t have enough missiles to fire anymore.
They expended almost all their stockpiles, for nothing. Ukraine still has electricity, their strategic bombing campaign failed.
New years eve 600? Lest ye forget!
12,000 tanks? Where? In a field rusting methinks!
Easy proportion: 1 Russian BTG=10tanks=1000 man. 12.000 tank=1.200.000 trained personnel, Commander, Specialist, tank crew, artillery Mann etc…maybe in 12years!!!!
The United States together with Europe was also defeated by the same Azgan goatherds
About this ‘heroes’ I’ve spoken!
they have never actually were ‘defeated’. The cost of this whole stupidity was simply to big to bear and gains so tiny to even count than eventually someone pulled the plug from this whole nonsense affair.
If they (US moronic administration) would start armin women instead of guys who had no motivation to fight that would maybe (maybe) make some difference. Though ‘not starting’ would be the best
Cool story, still a defeat, Afghan isn’t in the US sphere of influence anymore and the USA wasted trillions USD on it, meanwhile Talibans have their own goatherding kingdom, seems clear to me who won.
Unless you think this whole shitshow was just to kill Bin Laden and let the troops have a very expensive 20 years long vacation in the mountains of Southern Asia.
You did not get it. The whole affair was a costly failure from the start and in such perspective any operation, besides sanctioned by UN (that war was rubberstamped by UN council btw. including RF) *police* operation was pure US idiocy. It has no chance of any political success. Militarily, US troops might stay here ‘ad defecatum infinitum’ nobody was ‘defeating them’.
That is what was said for Vietnam too. “We didn’t lose” in the field they said. The truth is that if you don’t achieve any of your goals, small or big, you have lost. The same will happen for Russia in Ukraine they don’t manage at least to secure Lugansk and Donbas.
nope. Maybe research the Vietnam war little more. There were actual defeats (though generaly minor). In Afghanistan there were none. Also – compare the loses in both cases. The only thing which connects them (and also Russian aggression) is “it was stupid to do this in the 1st place”.
Soviet union was also defeated by these Afghan goatherds
well, they actually got some nasty beating there.
Let’s first defeat the Russians before we make fun of them, the liberty of Europe and the future of the Ukrainian language in the Donbass, Kherson, Zaporizhzhia and Crimea is at stake. Although flawed the Russian military has huge reserves and big numbers with little regard for human life – quantity has quality of its own. NATO should send airplanes, large drones and long-range missiles
do you mean this game the freedom of Europe? If anything, from what I see, what is at stake in Europe are its geopolitical interests. but well I would like to know your opinion, what freedom and Europe is the game?
Any Latvian, Estonian or Lithuanian or Polish for a starter. Imperialism (including US one) is usually not very pleasant, often stupid and always arrogant. Trouble with Russian one (and Chineese or future Indian probably) is that it is just extremally shitty.
A10’s would be useful. The USA is retiring squadrans of them.
A10s would be useful if RU anti-air capabilities would be as much spent as Iraqi were. Otherwise they would be just obsolete, big and heavy flying coffins.
My take-away from this war: air power becomes much less relevant when both sides have competent anti-air defenses. Both Russians and Ukrainians are using planes as mobile long-distance rocket launchers, but they usually don’t put them too close to the fighting.
well, it is kinda *relevant*. Lack of air supremacy made this war so sluggish. Ukr definitely needs airframes, but not slow anti-Su-24 but relatively modern (not necessarily F-35) multirole aircraft like e.g. Grippen or some variant of F-16 or at least some modernised MIGs in good condition.
I’d like to add that Ukraine isn’t a walk in the park either, second largest army in Europe, 8 years of experience in Donbass, billions worth of foreign aid and the morale & number advantage, let’s not underestimate the enemy shall we? I’m sick of Americans thinking they could fight a space faring empire by just throwing money at it.